Telegram Log - Whitepapers, Slavery and Anarchy

Artem Kotelskiy

Hey

I discovered that both papers on the obelisk consensus algorithm were withdrawn from arxiv because of mistakes. Is this true?

Can someone from the team address this issue, please?

Monty Crypto (Xa no)

Mmm, about Obelisk? We have like at least 5 papers about the underlying logic, but wasn’t aware anything was specifically published about Obelisk already

Which papers are missing?

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

No. Chen withdrew them because he wanted people to quote then from the ACM journel instead of arxiv because its considered more prestigious

Synth

And chen thinks that one of the papers should be withdrawn because of minor error which is irrelevent.

the algorithm in that paper is only 3rd generation of the consensus algorithm and we are generation 5 and need implementation white paper

Artem Kotelskiy

https://arxiv.org/abs/1507.03927

It says crucial theoretic defect

Synth

Its chen being idiot

Artem Kotelskiy

The same with opinion Dynamics paper

Synth

there is an error in one paper that I told him about months before he published it

Synth

but its not relevent. The idea is based upon energy minimization and comes from statistical physics.

Chen was trying to create total ordering with some weird hashing thing that does not work.

Artem Kotelskiy

So the papers on the website are different from papers on arxiv?

I really don’t like that comment on arxiv. The author of the paper refuses it, there is something strange about it.

Synth

There are eight versions of them

The final version was the one published in the ACM journel/conference

Artem Kotelskiy

Could you provide a link please?

Can’t Google it

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

Chens professor. The coauthor wants the papers unpublished. He does not understand blockchain and thinks the chinese government is attacking blockchain and the paper may get him in trouble.

Synth

http://njtech.findplus.cn/?h=search_list&query=AR:%22Shu%2C%20Jiwu%22

Artem Kotelskiy [In reply to Synth]

I think this should be addressed somehow on your website. The whole project is based on security of obelisk. It should be crystal clear for people that this algorithm was at least peer reviewed by CS people.

Because of one simple reason – no one will dive into the papers and checking they are right except CS

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

There will be a sixth white paper that is 40 or 60 pages on proper implementation and details. But no one has time to write it.

We have the simulation done and now that peer discovery works we will get first gen implemented and show real world behavior

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

He was one who wrote the Go ethereum implementation.

Artem Kotelskiy

Jiwu?

This also should be on the website. But actually, thank you for your answers a lot.

Synth

The paper was published in a top 2 ACM computer science journel and conference for distributed database consensus and was peer reviewed.

We are only coin with peer reviewed academic paper and with simulations.

Synth

Chen

Artem Kotelskiy

Didn’t know about it

And can’t Google his involvement in eth

Please provide a link

Synth

We cant put on website because chen requested we did not. 80% of people involved in skycoin wont go on website or advisor board and want to hide… for various reasons

Artem Kotelskiy

Yeah, that is another issue

I see

Why??

Synth

Both in china because of potential bitcoin ban or scare mongering and in US for tax or employment reasons

Artem Kotelskiy

This is so shady))

Why don’t you go to Switzerland?

Indeed, I found Chen on the eth team

Monty Crypto (Xa no)

Out of all coins there are very few with our kind of repository, history, papers and all, and you call this shady because we don’t post some useless faces and names on our websites 😂

Synth

his pubkey is in the repo of eth developers. Check his github

Monty Crypto (Xa no)

In my opinion it’s shady to collection 10’s if not 100’s of millions through ICO’s without one line of code to show for it

Synth

The bitcoin developer who discovered the duplicate coinbase output problem also was heavily involved and two other major people but we cant put them on the website or advisor board.

There is a lot of drama about this.

Australian government was raiding peoples houses within 8 hours of them being outed as early bitcoin dev etc

And a lot of the real crypto people have security clearances and dont want to be publicly associated (but are involved in private) because of employment stuff

Artem Kotelskiy [In reply to Monty Crypto (Xa no)]

I was just kidding, see the “))”

Synth

The only people commiting with their real github names were basicly idiots with no opsec. And the other people involved dont sit on advisor boards or advertise themselves.

I dont even know why chen used his main/public github account. He was advised not to do that.

Artem Kotelskiy

I see, thx a lot for an explanation

Monty Crypto (Xa no)

Haha fair enough 👍

Artem Kotelskiy

I will keep doing my research then about skycoin

There is one problem though, all of this will come out inevitably..

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

+8 years of drama. You could make a movie about this.

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

No. it wont. People still cannot even figure out who the Bitcoin devs are!

Artem Kotelskiy

Hopefully

Still, why not go to Switzerland?

And have superopen development just like ethereum?

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

For what?

eighty people should move to switzerland?

Artem Kotelskiy

Ok..

I mean, the organization can go there and be protected somehow

Synth

Its on github so does not matter the country they are in.

Protected from what? No one has tried to attack skycoin devs yet.

Artem Kotelskiy

But you are saying that people are scared to say they are involved with the project

I just don’t understand why?

Synth

for tax reasons

Artem Kotelskiy

No

Can’t believe this

Why don’t you want to pay taxes?

Vadim 🛌

why would anyone want:D

Monty Crypto (Xa no)

Lol, yeah everyone else loves paying taxes

Artem Kotelskiy

I don’t see how rejecting to pay taxes can help your project at all

Please explain

Monty Crypto (Xa no)

There’s a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance

Tax avoidance is perfectly legal and executed by every single corporation in the world

Synth

Imagine you have 800 million in bitcoin. Do you run down the street bragging about it?

Do people with security cleanances and NDA agreements go around putting faces on websites? These people do not even have Facebook accounts and NDA says they cannot tell their clients who their other clients are.

Also there are IP issues with employers. If someone works at company the contract says the company owns everything they do. Including work in free time.

So they cannot contribute code publicly or company/employer can claim ownership and IP and causes legal problems.

There is a whole bunch of drama and bullshit. Anyone competent is secretive. And the people promoting themselves in public are losers.

ALL of the early bitcoin people expected the US government to crack down in it VIOLENTLY. And that fear never went away.

The people entering crypto today do not remember the crypto wars and government oppression of the 90s

Vadim 🛌

i find it strange that people are surprised by the anonymity of those interested in cryptography

Artem Kotelskiy

I don’t like ndas

I would think competent people never sign nda

Apparently I am wrong

Contracts with the companies…

Eh

So your devs and researchers are worried about their money, and you (presumably along with other projects of your scale) are imposing on them rules. Hard to believe.

Synth [In reply to Vadim 🛌]

What a world.

And they forget that ALL of the professional math and crypto people either work for the government or military.

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

Everyone who works at Google or a Fortune 500. We have commits from people who work for Google/Amazon if you look at commit history.

Artem Kotelskiy

The only thing I believe professional researcher is worried about is security.

Yeah, I don’t think google/Amazon are such great companies frankly

Although people there are competent

Anyway

I got your point

About all professional math people you stretched too far. I know exactly what kind of people leave pure math and go to military, and they are not the best, believe me.

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

Like Google.

Almost all large companies gave contract that says “we own you. You are our slave. We own everything you do in your free time”.

That is ALL fortune 500 companies. You will notice that they stopped commiting after taking employment at those companies.

Artem Kotelskiy

I see…

Sad

Synth

also the way US works is that information / research can still be classified after being published into the public domain.

So if a person gets government grant or worked on source routing or something and it is published, but that technology is used on later project they are associated with then it does not absolve them of legal liability

and if they worked at university while the algorithms were developed the university can make IP claim

so everyone in the US lives terrorized by lawyers

Artem Kotelskiy

I see. Hard to believe there are Universities in USA who would file such ip

But I still stand by my point

I think on your homepage you should explain why devs are hidden

Synth

You mean like Stanford/Cisco/Googler etc

Artem Kotelskiy

Ah, but then this will attract attention

Artem Kotelskiy [In reply to Synth]

Could you link or give keywords for any ip case there?

Google and Cisco are companies

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

They are not hidden. People are just too stupid to check github.

Skycoin is not about bragging about who has the biggest developer dick on their advisor board.

The website is about the coin and the technology. We dont believe in the advisor board, celebrity CEO dick measuring contest.

Artem Kotelskiy

Lol, account on github also doesn’t add anything, although I admit that there are accounts there which have other social media

You know, I don’t advice you to advertise yourself

Not at all

In fact I hate all these bright “team” pages and stuff

But here is one simple thing

I like the project

The future of the project is in hands of developers completely

So it would help if I know who they are, and what are their values

For me to decide, if I am going to be the sky node, or simply sky hodler

But I get it, you think that code and execution speaks to itself, fair enough

Synth

You go dox yourself and report all your stuff to the government and go pay your taxes to the central bank that owns you. All human cattle, please line up for bar coding.

Its the exact opposite of why bitcoin was created.

Artem Kotelskiy

Yeah well, there are different degrees of being crypto anarchist

Vadim 🛌

being one in words and in reality?:D

Artem Kotelskiy

I tend to believe that declaring a war to the previous governors doesn’t help pieceful transitioning to a better system.

I might be wrong, guys, so don’t push

Just an opinion :)

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

The central bank creates money out of nothing. Then the government taxes the money back from the slaves.

You are either a slave or you are free. People working for other peoples money, are not working for themselves. They are slaving for for their master/owner.

There is no degrees. You are either owned and are a slave and have a slave tracking number and live under a massive surveilence, police state central bank run slave plantation OR you are free. Slave or Free. There is no degrees.

Artem Kotelskiy

I see. I think the next thing to discuss is if the government is good or not (let’s say US). And I know I will lose this one, so let’s not go into this. I completely understand your pov. It differs from mine in that I believe in kindness more, and think that there is a spectrum of freedom. But could be I am just young and inexperienced.

Synth

“Freedom to masturbate to porn”, “freedom to smoke marijuana”, “freedom to have anal sex”, “freedom to shoot up heroin”, “freedom to run around in the ‘free market’ laboring like a slave for someone elses money”, “freedom to shop!”.

Slavery is not about free or slave. Its about independent (free) or dependent (slave).

You make people dependent upon you for survival, then you give them fake “freedoms” so they dont revolt. That is how you turn a society into a labor camp and then give them enough free porn, prozac and zoloft until you have domesticated “happy slaves” that cannot even imagine what an alternative would look like.

Look how free those people are with their $750,000 in student debt they wont pay off until they die! Lol. Its just a mockery.

Artem Kotelskiy

Everyone makes his own choices

Some people just grow food and live off that

I am from the country where half of the population lives like this, it’s just fine

And I think if one really wants, he can be free

Vadim 🛌

let me guess, belarus?

Artem Kotelskiy

No, it’s harder to guess

Synth

Anyone who does not want to be a slave is an anarchist now! Lol

“Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I dont want to be an anararchist. I mean a little slavery is ok, but the masters should be nicer to the slaves.” Lol.

Artem Kotelskiy

Anarchist is someone who declares a war on the government

Loool

Synth

Anarchist.

An-archon

An means without.

Archon means “master” or “ruler”.

Anarchy means “without masters” or without rulers. All of the words are inverted to mock the public and the illiterate.

Artem Kotelskiy

Anyway

Keep up the skycoin guys, I sincerely hope it will allow more people not to have masters

Artem Kotelskiy [In reply to Synth]

Ok

Synth

Lol

matthieu [In reply to Synth]

👍🏾agree completely

Synth [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

No. The problem is human nature.

You cannot free slaves. They will just find another master. They want and choose to be slaves. They just want a slave driver with a softer whip.

Look at how people spontaniously elect leaders to tell them what to do and tell them how they should live and what they should fear. Because they refuse to do it themselves.

matthieu [In reply to Artem Kotelskiy]

Actually maybe it would serve the coin more to put forward the ideology behind as synth put it rather than having a few faces….

matthieu

Synth So far I didn’t know what were your motivations/values and deep ideology. Now I am an even bigger supporter of the coin. This is important to remind the final aim of all of this… Loads of ppl forget and just want to be overnight millionaires by buying into ICOs…

Synth [In reply to matthieu]

Trillionaires lol. Worlds first trillionaires. Briefly until this bubble bursts.

Millionaire is so 1994

matthieu

😂😂

Synth

Bitcoin gets pushed up to $5000 but if even 1% of holders sold it would be back at $2000. So very high price increase vs the market depth.

I think we could see trillionaires or people worth more than Billgates briefly, before they start moving money out and it implodes.

Altcoins, unlike real estate and stocks, have no price ceiling. There is no fundamental economics or mathematics keeping the price from going up to infinity.

There is no revenues or loss and no objective way to determine that a buggy “smart contract” platform no one uses, should not be worth $250 billion dollars.

Steve

A Distributed Consensus Algorithm for Cryptocurrency Networks https://github.com/skycoin/whitepapers/blob/master/whitepaper_skycoin_consensus_v01_jsm.pdf

Is the most recent consensus algorithm whitepaper

Translation bounty for Русский, 한국어, 日本語, 中文: 20 SKY

Translation bounty for other languages: 10 SKY

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